原标题：刘晓明大使接受美国全国广播公司采访实录
来源：中国驻英国大使馆
2019年11月14日，刘晓明大使在出席“法国巴黎银行全球市场大会”并发表主旨演讲后，接受了美国全国广播公司财经频道（CNBC， Consumer News and Business Channel）资深记者安奈特·威斯巴赫采访，就华为、中美关系、中英关系、英国脱欧等问题阐述中方看法和立场。采访内容于15日在该频道“欧洲财经论坛”（Squawk Box Europe）节目播出，并在网站和推特同时刊登，实录如下：
主持人：关于华为及其设备在5G网络中的作用，有许多不同的看法。对此你怎么看？你能否向欧洲和美国的消费者保证，华为设备不存在任何问题？
刘大使：我认为，华为和其商业合作伙伴之间没有什么问题，因为华为的确是一家很好的企业，它不仅为英国的电讯业发展做出巨大贡献，而且很好地履行了企业责任，在英雇佣约2万名员工，投资30亿英镑。华为是5G技术的领先者，英国电讯企业都欢迎华为。当然也有一些杂音，有些国家不愿看到华为在欧洲的发展，向欧洲国家施加巨大压力，我就不点这个国家的名了。
截至目前，英国、德国、法国等欧洲国家对此仍存在不同意见，仍在进行讨论，政府尚未做出最后决定。我们理解一些国家的安全关切，华为对此也理解，而且正在努力解决这些安全关切。华为成立了完全由英国人组成的网络安全评估中心，出资请专家来监测、分析华为的设备是否存在安全隐患和问题。因此，华为是非常公开透明的，他们希望能成为很好的合作伙伴。正如我常说的，华为将为中英、中欧5G领域合作带来“黄金”机遇，禁止华为意味着错失良机。
我衷心希望英国、德国、法国政府从自身国家利益和对华合作出发，做出正确选择，而不是受冷战思维影响，更不能搞政治打压。我希望华为能在英国实现互利双赢合作。正如我刚才在演讲中所说，中国开放的大门只会越开越大，我们也希望其他国家同样保持开放，而不是对中国关上大门。
主持人：你提到了冷战，中美之间的地缘政治紧张状态让人感受到一丝冷战气息。欧洲承受压力，尚未做出决定，对此中方怎么看？
刘大使：我们已经说得很明确，中国无意与美打仗，无论这是冷战，还是热战，还是贸易战。我们希望与美国建立合作、协调、稳定、不冲突、不对抗的关系。中美是世界上最大的两个经济体，中美关系是世界和平与繁荣决定性因素。中美合则两利，斗则俱伤。因此我们对与美开战不感兴趣。
我高兴地看到，中美谈判官员正在加紧努力工作，解决贸易问题。我们不要求欧洲国家在中美之间选边站队。英美有特殊关系，但中英也在致力于打造“黄金时代”。我们追求互利共赢，而非“零和”游戏，既不是欧洲赢、美国赢而中国输，也不是中国赢、欧洲赢而美国输。我们希望大家实现共赢，这就是我们的立场。
主持人：我们谈谈中美贸易谈判第一阶段协议吧，协议似乎已经达成，但还仍存在一些难点。中方认为症结在哪里？
刘大使：我认为双方正在就细节进行密集磋商。我并不了解细节，即便我了解，我也必须谨慎表态，以免干扰谈判进程。但根据我的理解，关税应该是重要议题之一。加征关税不符合自由贸易原则，“贸易战”起于加征关税，也应该以取消所有加征的关税而告终。我希望第一阶段协议能尽快顺利达成，以便能够进入第二、第三阶段。
主持人：有人认为知识产权保护也是中美贸易谈判的一个焦点，中方在此问题上是否会有所妥协？
刘大使：改革开放40年来，中国在加强知识产权保护方面付出了切实的努力，取得了超乎寻常的进步，这一点毋庸置疑。首先，人们应该肯定中国所取得巨大进步。其次，中方认真对待美国等国家在知识产权问题上的关切，也承认各国均需要不断改进。正如我常讲的，没有哪个国家是完美的，世界上最大的空间就是不断改进的空间。第三，我认为动辄指责、声讨毫无益处。一些西方政客指责中国“窃取”美国技术，这种说法是完全错误的。中国的发展奇迹靠的是中国人民过去70年的艰苦奋斗，不是靠“偷窃”它国知识产权。西方应该公正客观地看待这个问题，而不是指责中国“偷窃”。这样才有益于双方就这一重要议题开展合作。
主持人：特朗普总统说过，打赢贸易战很容易，对此你怎么看？
刘大使：我在许多场合都讲过，贸易战没有赢家。
主持人：关于贸易谈判进程，你认为有时间表吗？很明显，明年美国将举行大选，贸易战将与选战交织在一起，中国是否持观望立场，等着与下一届美国总统再谈？
刘大使：我认为这不是中方的立场。中国持开放态度，我们希望问题解决得越早越好，因为这不仅符合中美两国的利益，也符合全世界的利益。中美贸易冲突已给世界带来许多不确定性、不可预测性，全世界都很关注，中美双方谈判官员责任重大。我认为中方不会观望，这不是我们的立场。我们希望尽快达成协议，但是“一个巴掌拍不响”，需要双方共同作出努力。
采访中，刘大使还就中国经济、中英关系、英国脱欧回答了记者的提问。
英文实录：
On November 14， 2019， Ambassador Liu Xiaoming gave an exclusive live interview on CNBC with Annette Weisbach after delivering a keynote speech at the Global Markets Conference 2019 held by BNP Paribas。 He shared thoughts on Huawei， China-US relations and trade negotiations， China-UK relations， Brexit and other questions。 The interview was broadcast on CNBC“Squawk Box Europe” the next morning， and carried on CNBC website and twitter。 The transcript is as follows。
Weisbach：There’s a lot of controversy about Huawei’s role in 5G network and its equipments。 What is your response here？ Can you assure European and also the US consumers that there won’t be any sort of problems with those equipments？
Ambassador Liu：I do not foresee a major problem between Huawei and their business partners， because Huawei is really a good company。 They contribute a great deal not only in terms of telecom industry in this country， but also in terms of corporate responsibilities。 They employed about 20，000 employees and invested 3 billion US dollars in this country。 And they are the leader in 5G。 I think the British business partners still welcome Huawei。
There are some noises。 I don‘t want to name the country。 They do not want to see Huawei have a better presence in European countries。 They twist arms of， they put pressure on these countries。 But so far， I think some European countries， like Britain， Germany， and France， have not yet made a final decision。 In terms of government decision， I think it is still debated， with divided views。
We understand people might have some concerns。 Huawei also understands the so-called security concern， so they try to address this concern。 Huawei has set up Cyber Security Evaluation Centre staffed by British people。 Huawei paid for this facility to monitor and analyze their own facilities- whether they are secure and safe， whether there‘s a problem。 So they are very transparent。 They want to be a good partner。 I always say that Huawei will present golden opportunities for China and the UK and for China and European countries to collaborate in 5G。 If you kick out Huawei， you really miss opportunities。
So I do hope that， the British government， German government， or French government， they will make decision based on their own national interests， based on their collaboration with China in building a strong partnership with China， but not based on some political witch hunt or， I would call， Cold War mentality。 So I do hope Huawei will be here for win-win cooperation。 As China will open its door wider， I do hope other countries will also open their doors and will not shut the doors to China。
Weisbach：You have said Cold War。 And it feels a bit that these geopolitical tensions between United States and China do have a bit of a feel of the Cold War。 And also， it feels that Europe has to make up its mind， at least the pressure is on Europe。 How do you see China positioned here？
Ambassador Liu：We make it very clear。 We‘re not interested in any war， whether it is cold war， or hot war， or trade war with the United States。 We want to build a cooperative， coordinated， a non-confrontation relationship with the United States。 We believe that there will be no peace or prosperity in the world without sound relations between China and the US， the two largest economies in the world。 We always believe that China and the United States will benefit from cooperation and lose from confrontation。 So we are not interested in any wars with the United States。 I’m very pleased that Chinese and American negotiators are working very hard to address trade issues。
With regard to Europe， we do not ask European countries to take side between China and the US。 The UK has a special relationship with the US， but we’re also building a“golden era” between China and the UK。 So we want to work for win-win， not a zero sum game。 Not Europe wins， America wins and China loses。 Not China wins， Europe wins and America loses。 We want win-win for all。 That is our position。
Weisbach：Let‘s talk about this phase one deal between the US and China， and where the sticking points are， because it seems that the deal is within reach but there seems to be some sticking points。 What are they from the Chinese position？
Ambassador Liu：I think the negotiators are still very much occupied with the details。 I do not have the details。 Even if I had， I would have to be cautious。 I don‘t want to interrupt the process。 But I think the tariffs might be one of the very important issues， based on my understanding of the negotiations。 Because the trade war started with the tariffs， it should be ended with removing all the tariffs imposed by the other side， because it is not in the spirit of free trade。 So we do hope that we can clinch the phase one deal sooner， so that we can move on to phase two and phase three。
Weisbach：What one is hearing is that intellectual property rights are also at the center of that debate or the negotiations。 Would China be in a position to compromise a bit in that stance？
Ambassador Liu：China has made great efforts in the past 40 years since the reform and opening up in terms of improving the intellectual property right。 First， I would say people should recognize the tremendous progress that China has made in this respect。 Number two， we also realize that we need to do more。 As I always say， the largest room in the world is the room for improvement。 So no country is perfect， but we are serious about addressing the concerns of other countries， including the United States。 That is the second point I want to make。
Third， I don‘t think resorting to war of words， accusing each other， is helpful at all。 Some politicians criticize China for so-called“stealing technology” from the United States。 I think they have a wrong impression。 China’s miracle is not built on theft of other countries’ property。 It’s built by the hard working people of China in the past 70 years。 So I think you really have to address this issue in sincerity and try to tackle this problem with honesty， sincerity， rather than accusing China of so called stealing。 That will be helpful for the two sides to work on this important issue。
Weisbach：President Trump once said the trade war is easy to win。 What would you respond to that？
Ambassador Liu：I said on many occasions that there will be no winners in trade wars。
Weisbach：And let‘s talk about the further evolution of the trade negotiations。 What do you think will be the timeline？ Because we are clearly， next year， heading into new elections in the United States， so it could be all tied together。 Would the Chinese position rather be to wait and see who will be the next president？
Ambassador Liu：I don‘t think that is China’s position。 We are open-minded。 We always want to resolve this problem sooner than later because we believe it is in the interest not only of China but also of the United States， also of the world。
The trade war between China and the United States really created a lot of uncertainties and unpredictabilities。 And I think the world is watching。 I think the negotiators of the two countries really have a big duty on their shoulders。 I don‘t think it is the intention of China to wait and see。 That is not our position。 We want to clinch the agreement as soon as possible。 But you need two to tango， right？
